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June 24, 2009

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Glenn Fleishman

This whole episode was fascinating, because it's so out of keeping with the usual run around with book authors about anything to do with anything.

VQN found something weird, did the thorough research one would expect if you were going to confront somebody with plagiarism, and then contacted you to obtain a response before publishing (if I get the time sequence right).

Your response was to take immediate responsibility for the omissions, explain why, and take steps along with your publisher to right the situation.

I can't recall the last time that happened.

I'm not familiar with the term write-through. Does that mean taking a source and reworking it to avoid citation? I can understand doing that with Wikipedia which is a secondary source.

Dennis G. Jerz

If "write-through" means "paraphrase to avoid having to cite," that's still a problem, since you're still building on the Wikipedia article without citing it. (Paraphrase can still be plagiarism of ideas, as the discussion on VQR clarifies.)

If "write-through" means "go directly to the sources cited by the Wikipedia article and cite them directly," that's a lot of extra work, and will typically result in longer passages (with multiple citations).

Having said all that, I recognize that you're doing the right thing now.

Mark Frauenfelder

I'm surprised that the VQN is coming down so hard on you about it. It's obvious you didn't try to pull a fast one. You just made a mistake of carelessness, which is human and forgivable.

I think many non-fiction writers share the same nagging fear that their source notes will accidentally get mixed into the manuscript without proper attribution. Because it's so easy to copy and paste, this kind of thing is going to happen to other writers. I'm working on a book now and I really hope I haven't screwed up! I wonder if there's some kind of company I can hire to check my manuscript before the book gets published?

Your candor and proactiveness in this matter is commendable. You are doing the right thing.

Dennis G. Jerz

@Mark, "some kind of company I can hire to check my manuscript"

Turnitin.com?

David Gerard

Right ... so why couldn't you just cite the specific revision ID, as clicking the "Cite this page" link at the left of every page on Wikipedia allows you to? We make this as easy as we possibly can - what bit wasn't easy, so we can make it easier?

David Gerard

@Mark - the VQN comments read like they're trying to get their revenge on everyone who ever used the web or Wikipedia.

Barry Ritholtz

I wonder if this is typical for Publishers.

My disagreement with my original (now former) publisher about a similar sourcing issue -- I wanted to add numerous pages beyond end/footnotes called "Additional Resources."

I know I am a sponge and tend to absorb what I read, and I wanted to make sure if anything was subconsciously "copied and pasted," I was covered.

They balked at the extra pages . . .

Chris Anderson

David,

That's exactly what you'll see in the online note, but I thought the "Retrieved 19:39, June 24, 2009" was clumsy and confusing when enshrined in paper that would be coming out a year later. So I decided to kill the notes entirely, and then I screwed up the resulting integration process since we didn't have a backup wikipedia citation method. In retrospect, I would have liked to just say "According to the Wikipedia entry on [this subject]...." and then direct readers to the online notes, where the full URL would live. I hope that would have been a reasonable compromise. Next time. Sigh....

mike

lifting large spans of copy from wikipedia of all places while retaining inaccuracies... you should just know better than that.

Galen

David--
I wondered about citing specific revisions and I see that sure enough Wikipedia actually provides a helpful tool for that. The problem, I suspect, is that the resulting URL is not very human-friendly, whereas the link to the main page is. So for instance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_tail
is the link to the live version, but
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Long_Tail&oldid=298319774
is the permalink to the current revision. I don't want to have to read that, or have it appear in my document, it's just too ugly.

Is there any way to rejigger the underlying site architecture or create human-friendly forwarding urls that redirect to the php-ified urls? Something like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_tail/2009-06-24-1005UTC
?

Something like that would be human-friendly, not too hideous to print, and would clearly indicate the retrieval date within the URL itself.

Tim

Wikipedia gives you the ability to link to old versions of the article directly. The old versions won't change and visitors can see what you linked to and then click to see the lastest version of the article.

For instance: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Long_Tail&oldid=272075630

Why not just use that URL?

Debbie Weil

Hi Chris, I think your "fix" is just fine. This is a fascinating example of "open publishing." I.e. telling us about Hyperion's wishes, the awkwardness (and datedness) of time-stamping the attributions and your proposal for how to handle it differently. Writing about fluid, Web-based information in a print book is clumsy. Sigh, as you put it.

P.S. I put in a request for a free copy of FREE; fingers crossed.

Jackson Landers

I am continually seeing readers attack Chris for using Wikipedia at all as a source. And I was going to post a comment here stating that the problem is really just the issue of plagiarism and that it is a fact that the Wikipedia has been proven to be no less accurate overall than the Encyclopedia Britannica.

But first I wanted to check that to make sure it was true. So I found this:

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1038_3-5997332.html

Which is the study I recall hearing about at the time. But wait, that study was done by Nature. Huh. Chris used to write for Nature. So I dug a little deeper and found this:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/23/britannica_wikipedia_nature_study/

Essentially, in March of 2006 the people from Britannica took great exception to the accusations of inaccuracy and in turn accused Nature of 'cooking the books' in the study in order to make what has been characterized as their pet website look better.

At around the same time (I can't see exactly when the piece was written), Chris Anderson wrote an op-ed for Nature advocating that scientific journals conduct peer review through, essentially, comments by their readers a la Wikipedia.

http://www.nature.com/nature/peerreview/debate/nature04992.html

Somewhere in here, there is a snake devouring its own tail.

It would take more time than I have at the moment in between tasks at work to tease it all out, but its here. I can feel it. I cannot help but feel that the perfect man to explore this would be Errol Morris, which I'm sure will be understood by anyone who has read his excellent pieces in the NY Times over the past year. Appropriately enough, or maybe it is a conflict of interest, Morris usually gets to the solution to his seemingly-simple-but-actually-sprawling mysteries through the feedback of his comments sections after each installment has been written.

Ricky

Mark Frauenfelder: Nice fawning comment from a guy who worked for many years at Wired magazine. Oops, you forget to mention that.

Then again, you did appear in ads for Apple Computer, another behavior which many people felt was questionable.

Robert Creutz

Chris - Classy response. Check out www.ithenticate.com when you get a chance. I'd be happy to allow you a sample account for review. Perhaps you'll even consider a feature article in Wired. In our business, we understand that whatever people feel about the legitimacy of wikipedia, it is a widely used research resource. As such, we have a dedicated crawl of this content to ensure that our content verification software can draw attention to wikipedia matches so authors can mitigate circumstances like yours. On the other hand, your book is going to get great publicity despite. I recall grabbing a copy of Kosinski's "The Painted Bird" from my local library as soon as I learned of controversy regarding the true authorship of the book. Again, kudos for a classy response.

Bob Creutz, GM iThenticate

Aheli Shooes

A time stamp for the quote would have been the most logical.

Also very, very, very few really care if you cite wikipedia or any other random website from the Internet.

Stephen

One problem with systematically removing all references to Wikipedia is simply that you are removing a valuable piece of information about your process.

I agree that their cite links are "ugly", but that's what footnotes and endnote are for.

Mark Frauenfelder

Hi Ricky: You are right. I should have mentioned that I was an editor at Wired from 1993-1998. I left several years after Chris took over, but disclosing my past employment with Wired adds context to my comments. Thanks!

Air Jordans

I don't want to have to read that, or have it appear in my document, it's just too ugly .

spinchange

Interested in learning more about the online edition, anyhow. Look forward to more details.

Ricky

Mark, you seem particularly sympathetic to Chris. Are you supportive of Chris because of some of the criticism you received for doing the commercial? Do you feel journalists are held to too high of a standard?

Finally, do you think journalists should endorse products?

Mark Frauenfelder

Hi Ricky -- I like your line of thinking here, but you are stretching too much to try to find a link between my Apple commercial and my defense of Chris. It doesn't really make sense. I have plenty of other character flaws that would be more appropriate for you to use here. Let's take this off line and I can help you develop a stronger argument. Email me at mark@boingboing.net.

Ricky

I'm sorry you're not willing to answer my questions in this public forum.

I'll email you.

pyrate

If the future of everything is free, why do you expect me to pay for your book? Especially if big chunks of it are lifted from Wikipedo?

Cville guy

Jackson Landers, it might be nice if you mentioned you were Waldo Jaquith's twin brother. (they have different last names, long story)

Waldo is the editor at the VQR who discovered this to begin with.

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The Long Tail by Chris Anderson

Notes and sources for the book

FREE will be available in all digital forms--ebook, web book, and audiobook--for free shortly after the hardcover is published on July 7th (exact dates will be announced in the posts at left as each form is released). The ebook and web book will be free for a limited time and limited to certain geographic regions as determined by each national publisher; the unabridged audiobook will be available free forever, available in all regions.

Order the hardcover now!